michelle ebanks president of essence communications. thanks for being here tonight. we look forward to seeing you this summer in new orleans. and you can find all the information about the essence festival on our website, politicsnation.msnbc.com. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. two days and counting. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in louisville, kentucky. let me start tonight with the big news. close to home news. and to this show. two nights from now president obama will be our guest. yours and mine on this show. he's agreed to sit with me before a big group of college students. that's right. the "hardball" college tour is

back big time. and the biggest headliner, the president of the united states. we're going to be hitting my kbigest questions with the president before the students of american university. my questions will be the very ones you and i talk about here every night. this destructive politics we're facing in this country, this inability to strike compromise and how we can fix it, this failure of tough personal accountability in government as viewed through the lens of the health care rollout, the attempts out there to suppress the minority vote in three dozen states, and the life and death matters of war and peace. you know where i stand on these matters. you know where you stand. and two nights from now, this thursday at this very time we'll know where the president stands. on "hardball" tonight, escalation. the attack of the wacko birds. running out of ammo, the right wing has gone to ringing the bugle louder. it's not enough to say the president and his people did a lousy job rolling out the health care law. it's not enough to say they turned in their work sloppy. no, the screaming you hear now

is liar, liar pants on fire. it's an escalation of the old refrain the president's not who he says he is. nobody knew him in school, went the donald trump rant. he's not from here. now comes the charge the president's health care law is not on the level. that the president didn't just fail to get it right the first time, he's a liar. and on benghazi, he's something else they say. howard fineman and sam stein are both with "the huffington post" and both msnbc contributors. ted cruz's trail buddy has taken it to new heights. during a hangout yesterday, the texas senator used the issues of benghazi and the affordable care act to accuse the president of something truly sinister. let's listen. >> i think the current administration has taken liying to a new level. to me that's one of the most aggravating thing about what's happening in washington these

days. particularly about this administration. which is a lack of accountability. and the willingness to mislead people or provide them just demonstrably false information. we've seen that most recently in the health care debate over if you like what you have you can keep it. >> howard, i once heard the story that when napoleon was running out of infantry he'd say send in more. and they'd say there isn't any more. he said accepted in more cavalry and there isn't anymore. and he said send in more flags. i begin to think now the republican escalation is in tone because they really feel like they're running out of this tired rant even about obama care already. your thoughts. >> that's right. i think there's a streak of the evil other them, the mysterious other who is now in the person of president obama. and he wants to impose big government on the poor, free people of texas and everywhere else. i've known john cornyn for years, i've covered him for years.

i don't think of him at heart as that kind of guy. he was a corporate republican. he was part of the george w. bush machine of compassionate conservatism years ago. but now he's playing to that crowd. and the fact it was a google hangout is significant. one of the things that's changed here is that you marry that long tradition of american fear of government, of resentment of the other, of conservative versus liberalism. you marry that us versus them with modern technology in the fact you can speak discreetly to your own crew and stoke up your own crew, wave the flag with them, and you have the tone of the republican party today. they're largely speaking to themselves. >> yeah. and on occasion they get caught, sam. one thing i've noticed here the way howard pointed that out is yes john cornyn was a regular conservative republican until ted cruz became his running mate.

driving out of circulation, it seems. >> yeah. well, listen. this is a complex matter. because to cornyn and others' credits, they were warning there would be people that would be left off of their plans or forced to cancel plans. a lot of the problems we're seeg they did warn about. however, they are taking these criticisms to a different extreme. it's one thing to warn about the rollout, about a sloppy website, about people who have canceled coverage. it's another thing to warn about big government intrusions. keep in mind, the individual mandate was a conservative idea chocked up on the heritage foundation. it's not like this was a theory. the other thing that should be pointed out and the president stressed it today, whether you like the bill or not, for the next three years it is going to be law. until president obama is no longer in the white house, then we have a discussion about repeal. then republicans need to stop saying we need to get it off the

books. >> sam, what are they accusing him of? it's like if a baseball batter gets a strike called on him, you don't accuse him of not trying to hit the ball. if you try to hit the ball and fail, that's what obama did here. it was a poor rollout. >> yeah. >> are they accusing him of wanting to have a poor rollout? it seems like they're saying he lied. he wanted this to be lousy. what are they actually accusing him of? >> that's the irony of the criticism. they say the website is so poor. it's not letting people buy coverage. it's not what you promised it to be. and we don't want people to buy coverage. it would be bad for femme. so there is a general inconsistency to the criticism here. but again, the president stressed it today. for the next three years, he will be in the oval office. the repeal movement is for that period of time dead. there is no repeal movement unless they can get a veto -- >> because of the constitution. >> exactly. >> right. >> then you have to step back and say, okay. knowing that's the case, are there constructive ideas you want to add to health care

reform? if not, maybe it's time to step back and let the thing work. >> well, maybe we'll hear from jack cason and people like that who do have ideas, perhaps. if anyone knows about distorting information to a new level, it's the president's enemies. here's a small sampling of the fear mongering against the affordable care act. every one of these clips, by the way, isn't vintage. it's all from this year. let's watch. >> you said it's the most dangerous piece of legislation in the history of the united states. >> yes. i think so. >> let's repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. let's not do that. >> this killing health benefits is shattering the economy all across the country, in all 50 states. >> of course there are death panels in there. the important thing to remember is that's just one aspect of this atrocious, unaffordable, cumbersome, burdensome, evil policy of obama's. and that is obama care. >> obama care is really, i

think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. and it is in a way, it is slavery in a way. >> howard, is this the evil empire speech reapplied to obama care? i mean, i've never heard the word evil used to many times. i love the way sarah palin is unbelievely delicious at this. she talks about and those death panels are in there. i love the way she says the death panels are in there somewhere. like they're creeping around inside. >> i mean, sam very rightly and logically said these people should stop because the president said, repeated today, and reminded them that he's going to be in office. he can veto anything. so they ought to calm down. but the fact is when you watch a few of those clips and when you talk to people in the movement and when you cover some of these groups and so forth, you realize that there's something else going on here. it isn't just a piece of

legislation with these people. it's a kind of crusade against some deeply evil force. it almost harks back to the days when people were worried about communist infiltration and there were people from abroad that were going to control every aspect of your life. in the clips they used words like killing and death. and they used the words of war and life and death because that's how they keep themselves going in this thing. they can't be reasoned with on this law. they just can't. it's beyond logic in many, many respects. and many members of congress are -- talk about slavery. they are the ones who are shackled to the roots of the conservative movement that are controlling the party today. >> yeah. i think so one big difference is there were some communist agents back in the day of to this point the president's enemies are also using the affordable care act to

accuse the president of waging a radical war of subversion. as howard mentioned there. and lawlessness. this is michele bachmann back again. this was today she was talking about the president's handling of the health care act rollout. here she is live and fresh. >> we've been appalled at the president's actions. they are clearly unconstitutional. you're not a king. you're not a dictator. you can't do whatever you want. he has rewritten the constitution for himself as a part of his effort to fundamentally transform of united states of america. >> you know, sam, i have a good memory about these things. didn't we have a long debate about the health care act? wasn't there a 60-vote majority at one point? there was a majority vote to deal with the numbers problems. it was done quite in broad daylight and passed by our u.s. congress in both houses by majority votes. and of course it was signed by the president in broad daylight. here she is enacting this or

putting up this notion somehow there was something done under the table here. something unconstitutional and unknown before this moment. >> sure. well, i think one of the criticisms that conservatives had is the obama administration has used its executive authority to tinker with the law in where they think congress should have a say. some of this criticism reaches well beyond logic. let's go back to sarah palin. the notion death panels are in there. the first she referred to was end of life consultations. that was stripped from the legislation because of the uproar she caused. it's not in there now. but years later she's acting as if it is. so there's a bit of lunacy to these criticisms. it's not based in fact at all. that's what clouds this debate. you don't know what are pure fabrications or gripes. >> don't you think party appeal, sam, of sarah palin is she

doesn't give a rat's butt what the facts are. and i think that is her wild attraction. she's almost squirrely in that way that she wants to say wild things. we'll say that's not true. she'll just come back and say that's being technical or you're dealing with facts there. >> or she'll find some other provision to claim it's a death panel. for example the independent payment advisory board. i agree with you. there's sort of an allure from her vantage point to cause a racus. >> when katie couric asked years ago what are you reading that was a lead in. asking what newspapers you're reading is a leadist question. anyway, thank you guys. howard fineman and sam stein. coming up, the president's on a mission to sell his health care plan to the american people, of course. can he make the sale all the way?

it's getting close. he's gaining on this thing. plus republicans said they'd reach out to minorities. remember they did that after the big autopsy they called it? with well b one year later looks like the autopsy report is dead itself. they managed to alienate those voters again and again. how about keeping black people from voting, that's a start. and rush limbaugh has attacked everyone to his left. who's next? the pope. called him a marxist. and let me finish tonight with our big show this thursday. as i said the president of the united states is going to be joining us here on "hardball" to talk about the issues we talk about here every night. he's going to be joining the conversation and i can't wait. i know you can't. this is "hardball," the place for politics. day we're working o be an even better company - and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor.

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committee have until december 13th to reach a deal. that's next friday. and politico reports they're inching toward a small scale deal at least. to replace sequester cuts for the next two years. most importantly the deal could potentially reduce the threat of another government shutdown come january 2014. and we'll be right back after this. [ male announcer ] campbell's homestyle. mmm! this is delicious katie. it's not bad for canned soup, right? pfft! [ laughs ] you nearly had us there. canned soup. [ male announcer ] they just might think it's homemade. try campbell's homestyle soup.

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this the working and will work into the future. my main message today is we're not going back. that seems to be the only alternative that obama care's critics have is let's just go back to the status quo because they haven't presented an alternative. i've always said i will work with anybody to improve this law effectively. you've got good ideas, bring them to me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president.

>> that's putting a lot in. that was the president on offense very much so today after weeks of dealing with negative headlines over the website's problems. the president now spends the rest of the month, we're told, touting the benefits of the new health care law. urging americans to get in and enroll. the numbers so far this week have been encouraging. a million people visited the website just yesterday. and the error rate was fairly low. according to "the washington post," the website processed 18,000 enrollments in a recent 24-hour period. that's twice the previous record. overall nearly 150,000 people have been able to complete the enrollment process. yes, there are still flaws, of course, but by now it should be pretty clear the law is not going away. the president made that clear. will conservatives get the message even today? chuck todd for nbc news and clarence page for the chicago tribune. chuck, it seems to me that that statement the president made, it's not going to go away as long as i'm president, i'm not going to repeal it is one of those new facts. if you put something on the

table, all of a sudden it becomes a different reality. we're going to make clear there's going to be repeal, repeal efforts. you can try all you want even if you get the senate next year and you're not going to get the signature of the president on anything. >> that's right. but what i have found fascinating, chris, you know, we did a study -- i talked about this this morning on my show. we did a quick examination. not a single republican on a sunday show either last sunday or the sunday before even used the word repeal. for the most part, republicans are moving on from that. they're realizing they're not going to be able to repeal this law. their last shot at doing it was somehow this website not working at all. this new fix not working. that's not the case. the website is working. they're not going to be able to repeal it. they're going to have to change their messaging to some sort of, we're the party that's best suited to fix it or redo it or things like that. so they're going to have to come up with something different.

the only thing i was surprised at the president today was him saying that while i'm president. i'm surprised he didn't just say it's not going away. because you know what, chris, it's just not going away. period. >> let me go to clarence on that point. i agree with that. that puts the republicans if they give up on repeal going into two different directions. a big bunch of them going in the direction of we're just going to dump on this for the next couple elections. that's all we have to do. but there might be a smaller break out of republicans who say, you know what? i've got a responsibility to my constituents at home to make this thing better. it's going to be here. it's going to be here as long as we live. it'll be here forever, perhaps. but i'm going to make it better. there's a couple tweaks i know about. maybe i heard it from jack cason or someone i look more positively toward on the republican side. >> you're hearing some people speak in those terms, chris. let's face it. it's still a fact that obama and obama care are the two words that really unify republicans

across their factional lines and they're not going to give up on it very quickly. and the minute they come up with a positive suggestion of which there are several floating around paul ryan and others have had a free market oriented alternatives. but they are not popular. even among republicans. they can't build a consensus around them. we debated proposals during the last presidential election, you'll remember. no voucherizing medicare, selling insurance across state lines. those are still the main tenants republicans push and they get limited success with them. >> anyway, after hitting the white house for months over the website issue, the right has pretty much shrugged off the improvements. their message seems to be so what, the law's still unworkable. let's watch the attack. >> the president's health care law continues to wreak havoc on american families, small businesses, and our economy. and it's not just a broken

website. this bill is fundamentally flawed. >> while the white house wants to claim that healthcare.gov is now working, we know that obama care is still plagued with problems. and every american deserves relief from it. >> i still think the foundations of this plan have some of the same kinds of problems that the rollout has had, but they're fundamental. very hard to overcome. >> when this website eventually gets fixed, the problems really begin for this administration. this is just beginning the disaster of obama care. >> okay. let me go back to chuck. just studying politics, don't you get the case with boehner and cantor who in another universe would be reasonable, i think, they sort of acts like prisoners of war, p.o.w.s. it's mechanical. do you sense there's a real passion among the establishment republicans, what we call the establishment, that they're going to have to live with this as they had to live with

medicare and social security and down the road they'll have to marry it. >> what i sense is this lack of passion on the whole repeal, this isn't going to work aspect among that establishment wing of the party, chris. because i think -- you brought up jack kingston. let me give context. republican from georgia. there's a crowded primary down there. he's a member of congress now. when he made that comment that, you know what, it's now time to start figuring out how to fix some parts of this and i forget the exact quote he said. he got pummelled on the right. by some folks saying, you know what, this guy isn't a real conservative. he isn't going to be the kind of senator that conservatives are going to want to see. he's not going to fight this health care. he's sort of throwing in the towel. and that's the problem that leaders in the republican party that you're bringing up that who in another time might have said okay, can we try this state line thing that we like or why don't we try "x" or "y." they can't do that politically

because it would infuriate the most active part of the republican base right now. so i think that's why you're seeing this warmed over conversation. they're not saying the words repeal anymore. they're just saying i don't think it's going to work. it's their way of saying, hey, look, base. i'm telling you it's not working but they're also not pledging to repeal. >> let me ask you about the question of the republican party. clarence, you've covered it as long as i have. if there weren't an obama plan, would they have one? and if they don't have one in mind really, they're stuck having to tweak little fixes or basically saying nothing. i mean, they don't have a big option plan out there because i don't believe they believe in one. do you think they do? >> they don't have the consensus. enough republicans to agree on one plan that they can say, look, here's what we're going to propose. here's what we're going to send over to the cbo. you just heard chuck.

if jack kingston in georgia is now a rhino, they're going to excommunicate strom thurmon from his grave or something. the mind reels how far the right the republicans have moved since the '80s. the conservative problem solving ideas. now a daday nowadays, they aren't accused of -- they're republican in name only. >> anyway, attacking the law is one thing but putting forth your own alternative is something else. it's easy to run against a plan if you have one of your own. here's speaker boehner conceding that this morning. here he is, speaker boehner. let's watch. >> the american people want to

be able to pick their own type of health insurance. they want to be able to pick their own doctor. they want to be able to pick their own hospital. that's what a patient-centered health care system looks like. >> will that be up for a vote in 2014 now, a bill for that? >> speaker, will that be up for a vote in 2014? >> we'll see. >> i thought that was a good question there by luke russert, chuck. he said nice comment, good there. but are you going to do this thing? and he said we'll see. after 40 votes to repeal in the house, he didn't even say we'll have one vote in the house to do what they say they believe in doing. >> because chris, fiscally i don't know how they come up with something that wouldn't look like it would explode the deficit, that wouldn't look like it was going to expand government to basically abide by what boehner just said there, the cost could potentially be astronomical in some places. now, it could end up being that the president's health care law ends up costing a lot more than

the experts have said, but for right now the best people we got, the congressional budget office insists it's not going to be that costly. it's hard for republicans to come up with something that will be as fiscally neutral and responsible as the law as it is written right now that the president has. >> it was like the speaker saying holding up four candy canes saying like all these? i'll give them to you. thank you chuck todd and clarence page. up next, what's the explanation for this star wars inspired scene on the national mall here in washington? the sideshow's next. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china,

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sunday. it's got everyone talking including stephen colbert which came up with a new way to get products faster. >> put on your future hat jeff bezos. i've cooked up an idea that will take buying to a new level. here's the idea. amazon locations that customers can walk into and buy things. and the inventory would be arranged not as drop-down menus but rows of physical merchandise the customer can actually touch. and instead of waiting precious minutes far drone to arrive, they can place it into a sort of wheel basket conveyor. it's inspired by your website's abstract cart graphic. thus they have the products instantly. i call it amazon live. >> i love colbert. of course skeptics of amazon's new idea have privacy concerns. they worry that the drones will

incentivize the use of more intrusive technological innovations. and the folks at funny or die offered little reassurance on that issue in their latest exclusive. check it out. ♪ ♪ >> finally, you could say that washington already has its fair share of space cadets in the congress, but last weekend tourists visiting the national mall were surprised to see this scene in front of the u.s. capitol. a group of confused storm troopers from the movie star wars pausing by the reflecting

pool to consult a map. as it turns out the production was part of a commercial shoot supporting the museum of science fiction. a non-profit initiative that plans to build a full scale museum in washington. while the district has over 50 museums and historic sites, they say this would be the first in the world devoted exclusively to the sci-fi genre. supporters are hoping to raise enough money to hold up a temporary preview museum by next year. up next, remember when the republican party promised to stop alienating groups that didn't vote for them? apparently the republicans don't. that's ahead. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis

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i'm milissa rehberger. a union official says the engineer of a train that derailed in new york caught himself nodding off just before a sharp curve. a federal judge says detroit can declare bankruptcy.

it allows detroit to cut employee pensions. lawmakers in illinois passed a bill overhauling the state's pension system which is $100 billion in debt. the measure in part cuts benefits to workers and retirees. back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." after the republican party's second national defeat at the hands of barack obama last november, some of the grownups in the party decided to set out to find what went wrong. the autopsy concluded that in order to win national elections again, the republican party needed to overcome the public perception that it is intolera t intolerant, out of touch, and simply doesn't care. but have the republicans followed their own advice so far? "washington post" opinion writer jonathan capehart wrote just

today, quote, autopsies are done on dead things. every since its march 2013 release, the gop has done everything possible to stay dead. that's pretty tough. michael steele was chairman of the republican party and is now on msnbc political analyst. gentlemen, i want you to look at this. michelle goldberg, by the way is the senior contributing writer for the nation. she's also with us. the gop has had a rough time attracting to the party. said quote, if we want ethnic minority voters to support republicans, we have to engage them and show our sincerity. but republican-led legislatures in over 30 states have enacted some form of voter identification laws on those who vote democratic. it's the most egregious to depress turnout. and it's a strategy unlikely to win over african-american voters, of course. well, this weekend the republican national committee

sent out a tweet that may be out of touch. it read, quote, today we remember rosa parks and her role in ending racism. that was back in the '50s. "a" shouldn't have talked about racism ending. and "b," certainly not in the 1950s. ted cruz and sarah palin led protests when telling president obama to put the koran down and figuratively come out with his hands up. there are images there of a protester outside the white house waving the confederate flag. start with michael steele here. your thoughts on how goes the autopsy and the resurrection, if you will, to use that metaphor. >> well, the body's still dead. i don't think that there's a whole lot that's really come out of this. there have been misstep after misstep. i mean, the opening, for example, of an office in detroit

for african-american engagement, really, in detroit is that what you want to call it? it's just not inviting. it's not a way in which i think you say affirmatively to african-americans let alone the vast majority of other communities out there that we need to touch that we want to have a dialogue and a conversation we want you to be part of. so i don't think the early stages of this have gone swimmingly well. i think the misstep this past weekend was again the lack of connection to anything that's authentically african-american. if you don't understand rosa parks' role historically let alone what she means to african-american in the context of racism. so there are a lot of elements there, chris, that are still missing. the effort, i guess, is appla applauded by some. but at least the african-americans that have approached me in places around town, it's a yawn at best. >> i want to get that point. i've been off on that one.

what do you think if you had to explain it objectively, how do you get across to people why an african-american who keeps up with things and lives in this country obviously would find objectable about a republican tweet coming out and saying we're paying tribute to rosa parks today because of her role in ending racism. what are the objectable statements there? >> because racism hasn't ended. the most immediate response i got was, it did? when? did we miss a memo? i mean, what happened? you know, it speaks to the lack of connection. and the fact that internally there is no objective oversight. there's no one looking at that with a black voice, if you will, who can say, you know, this is not going to -- "a," historically incorrect. factually wrong. but more importantly, it's not going to resonate with the audience you're trying to reach. we get the appeal. it just doesn't resonate.

>> yeah. i think that's -- i got to say as a white person, i think i get it because i think the idea of racism being eliminated is a profound notion that isn't true. in the way back machine. michelle, it seems to me that that's one reason -- this is a small point but an important one. you know how people really do support diversity as a value regardless of its need to do it. it's sort of good for everybody to have somebody in the room especially in journalism or politics that can read something and say wait a minute, i wouldn't say that. and i think as michael just pointed out, what is missing in that statement is the person in the room that would normally say don't put that one out. >> but there's a lot more than that missing here. this isn't a failure of management or oversight. this is an existential problem. that is what knits it together.

>> be particular. pick that point. make that point, michelle. you have to define that term. i agree with you generally. you mean when they picked up the dixie crats. >> i would say the sole of the republican party lies in the southerners that fled after the passage of the civil rights act and precipitated the migration of the center of gravity in the republican party to the south. and you see this, you know, not just in the evolution of the elected officials in the party but also in polling of the attitudes of republicans, you know, republican voters. it's not an accident that the republican party said rosa parks has ended racism. because in polls you constantly see the majorities of republican voters and conservative voters believe that the real discrimination in this country is against white people and that kind of all structural racism had been eradicated.

this wasn't a slip of the tongue as much as it was the accidentally revealing a basic tenant of conservative thought. >> i politely disagree with michelle. i don't know what poll that is. i would love to get the site of the polls that are saying that a vast majority of republicans view that there's reverse discrimination. and there's more white persons being discriminated against in this country and that's the real racism. certainly that was not the party that i led as chairman where, you know, as i like to say our goal was to turn the elephant and have it face its future as well as its past. and understand that the link between african-americans and others. but so -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> but i agree with michelle. that isn't the whole republican party. it's not the suburban republican party. but that is the rush limbaugh republican party. that we're the ones being beaten up on. >> right. i want to be clear that that's not rank and file. right. >> right.

but you said your goal was to turn the republican party around. how do you think that went? i think it's clear where the republican party has gone. and it's not in the direction that you say you wanted to take it in. it's in precisely the opposite direction. >> i think there are a lot of republicans in the north and midwest and a lot of parts in the country who would hate the idea of being in a party that was seen as racist. >> absolutely. >> they hate that image. and really would vote against it on paper. >> those were the voices we were looking to elevate in the rank and file of the party which helped us elect african-americans to congress, a broad spectrum of folks with recognition of historic links but importance going forward. >> what african-americans in congress? >> okay. one of the problems you've got there is that you were replaced by that guy -- i forget his name

right now that has the effort to suppress the vote. not the michael steele plan. >> no, it wasn't. >> ryan priebus. if that really is his name. thank you, michael steele and michelle goldberg. up next, rush limbaugh attacks the pope. is pope francis a marxist because he cares about the poor? i think jesus focused a lot on the poor. this is "hardball," the place for politics. she loves a lot of the same things you do.

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we'll be back with rush limbaugh's attack on pope francis of all people. "hardball" back after this. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you. if every u.s. home replaced one light bulb with a compact fluorescent bulb, the energy saved could light how many homes? 1 million? 2 million? 3 million? the answer is... 3 million homes. by 2030, investments in energy efficiency could help americans save $300 billion each year. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. with my united mileageplus explorer card.

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to help communities recover and rebuild. for companies going from garage to global. on the ground, in the air, even into space. we repaid every dollar america lent us. and gave america back a profit. we're here to keep our promises. to help you realize a better tomorrow. from the families of aig, happy holidays. we're back. it is nearly nine months as head of the roman catholic church, pope francis has proven to be fearless. remember the interview he gave back in september when he said the church grew obsessed with only talking about abortion, gay marriage, and birth control.

now he is taking trickle down economics. perhaps the ultimate proof that he has arrived politically, rush limbaugh has taken him on. >> i'm not catholic. i admire it profoundly. and i have been tepted a number of times to delve deeper into it. this is pure political. pope francis went further than previous comments criticizing the global economic system attacking the idolatry of money. this is pure marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope. >> how about strange theories,

he is being hoodwinked by an off stage communication who wrote his speeches and forced him to read them like a p.o.w. >> he says the pope has gone beyond catholicism. should we assume that rush limbaugh is a greater judge of catholicism than the pope? imagine if a liberal a few years ago called the pope a facist. he is essentially saying to conservative catholic listener the, look, you know better than the hope does about the real teachings of the church which is

absurd on so many levels. the new deal was partly founded on a papil from pope leo. it called for a living wage for for unions at the -- >> and for social security, it's all in there. >> yeah, it's all in there in 1891. and fdr incorporated a lot of it in his thinking. this marxism has been part of catholicism and to the teachings of jesus for hundreds of years. >> you know, i think it's odd because i am roman catholic, i am practicing, my whole family is. i have to tell you that the idea of catholic charities, the charity work that our religion and other religions, it's a

common goal to help poor and sick people. most of the religious in our countries today run hospitals, orphanages. and the idea that we have too much inequality out there, saying capitalism is okay, being rich is fine, but you have to focus on the people that don't have a piece of the action. it's not like he was running the creed here at all. >> he was talking about the idolatry of money, which i thought was a wonderful line. he talked about the globalization of indifference. this is what you want with the whole world catholic or not. somebody that gets them to think about fundamental issues and that returns them to the kinds of things that jesus did say, you know, according to

catholici catholicism. so this is at the heart of modern ultra conservatism as represented be rush limbaugh. he said that the real evil is indifference as you just said so well. we'll be right back after this. commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit.

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let me finish tonight with this, peek always ask me who i most want to have an hardball. thursday night, two nights from now, i can't ask for more. the president of the united states is coming to hardball. tonight i'm out here at the university of louisville. i'm here for the kentucky authors forum for my coming of age book "tip of the gipper." i expect we will talk about how to restore effective government in this country, and how to establish strong accountable and government. don't you think we need that after the foul ups in the rollout of the health care bill? and i will be talking to the president at this time on thursday night, 7:00 eastern.

it will be an exciting and informative unmissbable night. don't you dare not show up and watch. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. today the president was out officially selling obama care for the first time since the relaunch of healthcare.gov and he was defiant in the face of his critics. >> some are rooting for this law to fail. i will work with anybody to implement an approve this law effectively. if you have good ideas, bring them to me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. i want everybody to know that. >> across the country